Curse

gunster · Aug 22, 2009, 11:01 PM // 23:01

I don't know which one to use. Signet of Spirits looks like it's better because of the multiple spirits, but people say it's bugged.

Can someone give me a good opinion of which signet to use?

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 22, 2009, 11:25 PM // 23:25

People seem to like both. Maybe SoS if you don't have a lot of space on your bar for spirits (SoGM isn't useful if you don't have many spirits). Also, SoGM is Communing, so if you aren't using it then SoS is your option.

*Darcy* · Aug 22, 2009, 11:49 PM // 23:49

I use Signet of Spirits on my rit build and have no problems with it. It is a great addition to any spirit spammer build in PvE. If you are talking PvP, then I have no opinion.

lewis91 · Aug 22, 2009, 11:56 PM // 23:56

I use SoS, the only glitch is you must be targetting something whilst casting (i think, haven't been on my rit in a week or more) Its a fun elite especially combined with painful bond.

Lishy · Aug 22, 2009, 11:57 PM // 23:57

SoS is good for support builds or builds when you invest in channeling or just plain when you need more meatshields, whilst SoGM is used where you don't touch channeling.
It is also used when you prefer "Quality over quantity" spirits. For example. Anguish whilst under SoGM deals a total off 58 dmg+IAS+Other spirits
Spirits from SoS have a chance of not hitting same target as well, removing from their total damage. Plus they have no IAS.

Conclusion?
When you need more meatshields and spreaded damage, take Signet of Spirits. When you want stronger, single target, take Signet of Ghostly Might.

Pony Slaystation · Aug 23, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

You could always bring one, and use Arcane Mimicry on a hero who has the other. More fun that way.
Personally, I prefer Signet of Spirits.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 23, 2009, 12:39 AM // 00:39

The bug was never a problem because casting Summon Spirits fixed their targeting.

SoS allows for better bar compression and a significantly higher damage rate than SoGM.

SoGM is pointless.

Gill Halendt · Aug 23, 2009, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

It is also used when you prefer "Quality over quantity" spirits. For example. Anguish whilst under SoGM deals a total off 58 dmg+IAS+Other spirits

This. Quality over quantity.

I prefer SoGM for most of my builds. Pain and Anguish are linked to Communing and I could never do without them. Those work great with SoGM. Add Vampirism - which only benefits from the increased attack speed of SoGM, but not the damage bonus, since its attacks are life stealing -, Armor of Unfeeling, Summon Spirits, and you're done. If you split your attribute points properly, you can even spend 10 or so in Channelling and bring Painful Bond. Sure, that takes more slots in your skillbar than SoS, but the final result is better. Quality over Quantity.

IMO, SoS makes sense only if:

- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak... Most of the offensive spirits bar Bloodsong are linked to Communing tough.
- You're not spamming through and through, so you can use the rest of the skillbar for other stuff, while still spamming a little bit.

Up to you really, try them both and find out which one you like best. As far as I'm concerned, I love SoGM and I tend to equip Razah with SoS instead, since SoS is easier for the hero AI to manage, the short recharge time compensates the lack of mobility (heroes can't use Summon Spirits!) and his Channelling bar also couples well with my Communing bar: this way I can have both, Quality AND Quantity...

Spiritweaver · Aug 23, 2009, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Signet of Spirits.

7 Spirits + Painful Bond is win.

Signet of Spirits is no longer bugged they fixed it with the last update.

I normally run this and it's a fairly popular build aswell.

Hugh Manatee · Aug 23, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

^I pretty much run that but without the communing stuff(pve stuff instead like skippy the wonder sin or pain inverter), and more spawning stuff like spirits gift.

With 16 channeling you get blood song, vampirism, the 3 pain clones(they're actually a couple points stronger then pain) and if you can squeeze it in, Gaze of Fury(with SoS recharging every 20 seconds replacing one you gaze is no issue, and you might destroy an enemy spirit with it), though I take either an asuran summon or skippy the wonder sin. You get a tweaked out painful bond and bottomless energy from siphon spirit, in 1 attribute. Then you add in your spawning, your spawning skills like spirits gift, the stuff that interacts with spirits and SoGM doesn't match up.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 23, 2009, 06:03 AM // 06:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

This. Quality over quantity.

SoS build has both over SoGM.

upier · Aug 23, 2009, 08:05 AM // 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony Slaystation

You could always bring one, and use Arcane Mimicry on a hero who has the other. More fun that way.

And a waste of a skill slot, potentially even the elite slot. If your hero runs it, you will trash his version by summoning yours.

Also, I don't see the fascination with Spawning in some of the builds posted here.

Lishy · Aug 23, 2009, 08:48 AM // 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

SoS build has both over SoGM.

And yet, that build uses vampirism for damage.

Talk about bad argument.

Gill Halendt · Aug 23, 2009, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

SoS build has both over SoGM.

Hate to quote myself but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

IMO, SoS makes sense only if:

- You also bring other offensive spirits along, you devote your whole skillbar to spirit spamming, and SoS is an addition to that bar. Then, when you're able to summon up to 8 spirits, the arguments in favour of Quality over Quantity become a little weak...

So, we're comparing elite skills here, not bars... If you bring more binding rituals, half a dozen spirits can be better in a lot of situations - even though it's not that obvious to me, SoGM offers a precious increase in both damage and attack speed, which I'd still prefer over 4 more spirits with no real peculiarity. Since most of the offensive spirits are linked to Communing, you'll need to split your attribute points in a less favourable way and bar compression is gone anyway.

Betrayer of Wind · Aug 23, 2009, 09:21 AM // 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

And a waste of a skill slot, potentially even the elite slot. If your hero runs it, you will trash his version by summoning yours.
.

He means mimicry'ing the SoGM so your SoS spirits have wtfpwn DPS.
Recharge too high tho

upier · Aug 23, 2009, 10:22 AM // 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Betrayer of Wind

He means mimicry'ing the SoGM so your SoS spirits have wtfpwn DPS.
Recharge too high tho

(Khmm, if one Google-image's "d'oh" - the 7th hit is MY post at GWO where I bitch about the mesmer's armour clipping issues ... Or does that work only for me?)

spirit of defeat · Aug 23, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45

It depends on your attributes.
SOGM is only effective when bringing Anguish and PB.
Therefore you also need to invest in channeling. which lowers your communing.
My solution:

human brings the communing skills and Pve skills -->SOGM
Hero takes the channeling skills --> SOS

Lhim · Aug 23, 2009, 11:06 AM // 11:06

SoS is in channeling and 14+ Splinter Weapon is always nice. And with SoS you only need channeling, freeing up attribute points for whatever you want to bring along. I usually only invest heavily into Spawning Power if I take Great Dwarf Weapon with me.

So, the good thing about SoS is that it gives more bar compression, which allows you to bring other neat stuff. With SoGM there will be less room for that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

(Khmm, if one Google-image's "d'oh" - the 7th hit is MY post at GWO where I bitch about the mesmer's armour clipping issues ... Or does that work only for me?)

It shows as my 7th "d'oh" hit as well

snaek · Aug 23, 2009, 03:45 PM // 15:45

just quickly working out some numbers, results may not be accurate to actual gameplay situations...

7 spirit sos (sos+pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 channeling, 12 communing,
28+28+28+25+17+22+20 = 168 dmg every 2 seconds = 84 dps

7 spirit sos + painful bond
167 + 17 + 8 x 18 = 329 dmg every 2 seconds = 164.5 dps

----

4 spirit sogm (pain+anguish+disenchantment+vampirism) 14 communing
(28+10)+(19+10)+(19+10)+20 = 116 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 86.6 dps

4 spirit sogm + painful bond (pain+anguish+bloodsong+vampirism) 13 communing, 12 channeling
(27+10)+2(18+10)+21+20+(4x18) = 206 dmg every 1.34 seconds = 153.7 dps

notes:
*these bars use only 7 slots + 1 optional, the sogm would probably greatly benefit from another spirit inching over the sos build's dmg
*and yes i know bloodsong and vampirism have different attack speeds, but im too lazy to do seperate calculations

----

the numbers are very close, but ima have to give the edge to sos, due to having more spirits and therefore more tanking ability. the only reason i'd use sogm imo, is when you already have an sos and want to run double spirit spam.

Lishy · Aug 23, 2009, 05:02 PM // 17:02

A good team usually has the majority of enemies in a mob hexed with things like meekness. There for, doubling Anguish, with SoGM applying, adding all up to 58 dmg
Swap out vampirism for shadowsong as well since vampirism has no inherit and its dmg is bawlz compared to shadowsong
Also, take into account the IAS.